Worried Swansea mum Helen Lloyd feared her daughter Molly could die after being diagnosed with measles

“Although parents 'know' their children changed after the immunisation, that doesn't mean the vaccine caused the change, does it? And when we know, as we do now, that there is no correlation between MMR uptake and autism rates, we realise that it is simply a coincidence that autism is diagnosed at around the same time as MMR is administered. I suppose if MMR were given at age 11 you'd be claiming that it caused puberty!

The problem with court cases is that typically you get a judge with no scientific background making a decision on the basis of hearing two expert witnesses who are put forward by defence and prosecution to express opposing views. If you spoke to a hundred medical experts at random I doubt if there'd even be one who thought MMR caused autism - you have to do a lot of searching to find an expert like that. This small minority are very valuable to anyone who wants to sue for damages, however. The Cochrane Review, on the other hand, looks at all the published data and found, in the case of MMR, no link to autism. It compares hundreds of medical studies; not the opinions of two people, both of whom are selected to express a view opposite to the other.”

“I didn't realise this was a test! and I really don't need you to quote statistics Ewen, i have pages of research on Measles including the court cases and payouts.
'Proper professional studies' are all well and good but why do you place no value on the stories from parents who KNOW their children changed after the immunisation? i suppose they are making it up?
The inconvenience of postponing an exam is surely better than never being put forward for it ?

You are aware that children are individuals? to believe that the vaccine is safe for all is absurd.”

“I'll do a little homework for you, Red; The Peckham Report on immunisation policy found that for every 5000 cases notified - in Western countries like ours - there was 1 death, 50 hospital admissions, 50 patients with neurological complications and 200 with respiratory complications. So, yeah, "generally" measles isn't serious but why take the risk at all?”

“Well it is inconvenient, to say the least, for a child to miss important exams because their parents were too scared to vaccinate them.

"more often than not", "generally", "countless" - these all seem pretty hand-waving, unquantified, unresearched phrases. They don't convince me.

And I'm not concerned for the economy as a whole, but when the NHS is overwhelmed by preventable diseases they have fewer resources for people whose illnesses can't be simply and safely prevented.

And yes, MMR is safe; proper, professional studies have gathered data (and the NHS continues to gather data on all licensed medicines) and nothing significant has been found. The problem is that some people that the plural of 'anecdote' is 'reliable data'.”

“EwenM - A figure on the word generally? umm no, generally as in more often than not.

"Inconvenience of children being ill"
that's an interesting point, we should vaccinate our children irrespective of concerns to avoid inconvenience? seems a little extreme to me!
We should inject our babies regardless of countless reported cases of development delay and other health implications for the sake of the economy?
I guess we all parent in different ways.

I'm sorry, I really cannot agree with any of your points.”

“I'm glad you use the word 'generally' - would you care to put a figure on that?

From the perspectives of economics and of children's health; given the burden on the NHS of children needing hospital care and monitoring because of measles, and the suffering and inconvenience of children being ill, versus the tiny cost of the MMR vaccine; it's clear that prevention is better than cure.”

“I'm not attempting to give advice nor trivialise the number of admission cases, perhaps 'guarantee' was a misleading word in my comment.
I should have said i feel sure that the majority of children admitted into hospital will require little more than care and monitoring, this opinion is based on research, personal experience and discussion with medical professionals.

My point was that parents are afraid of a childhood virus that generally passes without complication in otherwise healthy children in the UK.”

“Red75: When you say that "i guarantee you the majority of children are being monitored ... which as i said earlier is something parents can do at home" - are you medically qualified to offer such advice? Or are you just trying to trivialise the numbers of children being hospitalised with measles because it doesn't fit your preconception that the disease is not serious?”

“The hospitals aren't going to send away children with Measles because in the event that something were to happen to them there would be uproar!
Naturally they will err on the side of caution but i guarantee you the majority of children are being monitored rather than treated (antibiotics for secondary illness excepted) which as i said earlier is something parents can do at home.

JIffy accept that you are mistaken/mislead in this debate.
I understand that you think the MMR is a positive thing and if you have children of your own i'm sure you are happy in the knowledge that you have done what you believe to be best for them, as am I.”

“Keep digging. I'm sure the hospitals are more than happy to fill up beds with children who's parents can't cope.

What next? Are you going to tell us these poor kids are all suffering from psychosomatic disorders?”