Swansea City supporters urged to respond to Liberty Stadium expansion plan survey

“Brochadav. I agree with many of your comments but some I dont agree with.

Firstly, your final point. Of course we all want to be were we are, and its a bit churlish to question would I rather be in league 2.

I do think our board are starting to forget. You cant plan a stadium expansion based on "would season ticket holders buy them in advance for 3 or 5 years or would they buy additional tickets for family members?" We are in the toughest of economic times and Swansea ain't no London. There is not a lot of money around. My point. In the dark days they consulted the fans. They should consult again. have a fans consultation when fans can put forward ideas for stadium expansion, such as incorporating commercial elements like supporters clubs, restaurants, gym, better conference facilities, possible standing areas etc. There is no point paying rates on a place if you cant use it every day of every week.

Does our club spend money we haven't got? Thanks for clarifying the history statement, but here's another for you. "Rome wasn't built in a day." We are developing an academy (which I hasten to add is not using renewable and money making technology such as sun and wind; so yes we are wasting money). We are developing a new training facility. Do we really want to be spending on a stadium, which in 10 months "could" be half empty. Yes build an academy and training facility, they will show players we are serious, But have a fans consultation on the big spend. Swansea has always had fickle fans and they will walk if we (perish the thought) went down.

As for people going to league games if they could get in, I often see many empty seats on the lesser games. We will sell marquee games easily, but not the others.

Arsenal - we have Christmas every year so that argument is a little thin there, as by that argument, if we are playing Arsenal or any big club over Christmas we still may not sell out (if we have expanded) and perish the thought of how full the stadium will be if we played Wigan / Reading etc over the Christmas period.

Finally, I agree with you that ultimately the fans pay for everything. Someone else on this thread quite rightly points out that football is accessible on some many levels, such as tv and internet. Most pubs in Swansea put the games on, with good pictures. 4 pints would cost £12, and to many, when the purses are being tightened; that will beat a cost of £32 a ticket and a bit of food and a drink at the football. You rightly point out that some away fans dont fill their section. Look at Man City. Massive fan base and they send 900 tickets back to Arsenal because they are too expensive at £62. What I am repeating is that yes it is fine to try and move forward, but in such difficult times we have to consider, with some careful consideration, all avenues before committing to such plans, because, where will it come back to in tough times? The fans.,”

“Carpmiester, if you got the Early Bird deal you would not be paying £480 for this seasons ticket. But you still would have paid over £400. However, despite this, the stadium is still being filled by the home fans.

Are the loyal fans being priced out? Not really, because all those fans have the option of paying by direct debit so they do not have to pay it all at once. It can be paid back in smaller monthly payments.”

“Hacker_Jack Back in the late eighties when we nearly went bankrupt, was also down to fact that the club was broke, due in no small part to the fact that we were still paying ridiculously high wages to some players that were signed when in the first division. We have only been in the premiership for 18mths and already talking about spending more than the cost of the team that took to the field last week to increase ground capacity! Huw Jenkins and the current board are by far and away the best in my time as a supporter and I do not believe they would take a huge step like this on the beliefs of a minority of the fans. Far bigger and richer clubs than us have waited a long time to do ground expansions, a 25,000-30,000 capacity ground is no good to us if we don't survive in the premiership. Not only will the ground not be used to the maximum but the upkeep will be more. Also, as I understand it 12000 is not for the design to be put in place, that is the maximum expansion possible. Judging by the comments that have been seen on these threads, realistically it would appear that there is not a lot of support either for or against with the same few people appearing all the time. I would have thought that if the feeling was so strong as to warrant expansion of whatever size more people would want to have their views known”

“carpmeister: Increase the ground by, say 5000 and if those seats are filled week in week out, great increase some more.

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That IS the plan. The reason for considering a total of 12000 now is so that the design can be put in place to allow staged increase of the ground in such a way as to be most efficient to get to the 12000.

The reason we nearly went bankrupt last time was precisely because nothing was spent on infrastructure, we are doing things correctly this time.”

“SCFC_10 I have no idea when you started supporting the Swans but judging by your comments I'd say not a very long time. The old Vetch when I started going down there held, depending on which "official" version you believe, either 32,700 or 34,200 which was reduced by the time we got to the "mickey Mouse" as you put it, first division, which generally consisted of mostly the same teams that are in it now including several foreign players, even the Swans had a couple! The big difference was people could afford to go to the matches. I have been to several matches at the old Vetch when it was full to the rafters in the 60's,70's and crowds up to 27000 in the old second division but those crowds were rare and were boosted by a lot of travelling fans and generally played on bank holidays like boxing day or Easter. There is talk of spending 15 to 20 million on increasing capacity which will be paid for by the club at a time when tv football is more accessible now than ever and money is tighter than ever for a lot of people. Unless they are guaranteed a good return on that spend it would be financial madness and thankfully that is something that the current board are not known for! Increase the ground by, say 5000 and if those seats are filled week in week out, great increase some more. Just don't forget that if things don't go according to plan it is the supporters who will be picking up the tab. The Swans are ultimately a business so have to make money to survive, 20 million goes a long way towards higher wage bills and new players, until we have established ourselves as a premier league club. A few years after our last stint in the top flight we came as close as we've ever been to going bankrupt, I don't want to see that happen again.”

“brochadav - The 90% policy I mentioned is 90% of home fans. Having only 10% of walk ups is losing the club money each and every league game.

We used to get walk-up figures of 3000-5000 in the championship frequently, we have sold out just about every walk-up ticket in the past 18 months and probably could have done twice over. Walk-ups pay more for tickets (per game) and in general will spend more whilst at the ground as well (via the club shop/concessions) because they are not there week in week out.



carpmeister - Why would figures from 30 years ago whilst football was at the height of it's hooligan phase and lowest ebb in popularity, when we had an already outdated ground with all the comforts of a night spent on a park bench be any indication of the figures capable now?

We are not going to increase by 60% all in one go, it would be phased (with the option to stop between each phase to reassess if needed). You also do not need people to attend nearly every game, just having the opportunity to go to a couple of games a season could easily turn a kid into a lifelong supporter, certainly that's how many of our current fans started. Without expanding the ground to the point where we rarely sell out other than the big games we are stopping that process from happening as people cannot get tickets.

It is far better financially to have a 25,000 average in a 32,000 stadium with occasional sell outs than it is to aim lower and I think we can easily achieve that.

Yes there is always a risk if we get relegated but that is present for all clubs. We need to make the most of our opportunities now because it will make the likelihood of us staying up and getting back up if we don't much better.

We got out of the lower leagues by becoming more professional than the rest, we need to do the same to stay in the PL and getting our stadium to match the potential attendance is part of that process.”

“"To get a rough idea of the fanbase just look back to when the Swans were in the old first division. Ground capacity then was around 24000, 3 full houses and an average attendance below 20000 in their first season ever in the first division"

http://tinyurl.com/6b3xkkk
Football attendances were much lower in the 1980's for the majority of clubs. Comparing the attendances from then to now isn't at all a accurate reflection of the current fanbase.

The Swans now play in the most watched league in the world with 24/7 global coverage, the old first division was mickey mouse by comparison. Besides that football is supported by a much wider demographic of people now, lots more families, women & children attend.

20,500 is too small long term, we need a bigger stadium & we can grow the fanbase.”

“Get it built, 32,500 +. Then make the cost of u-16 tickets alot cheaper & have plenty of family deals. Grow the future fanbase.

Why are people criticising a 18K attendance against Arsenal when it was £30 for adults, live on ESPN & with so many big games before & after? Check the attendances of other clubs playing in the 3rd round most didn't get over 10K despite cheaper ticket prices & not being on TV . Most season ticket holders I know watched it on the tele so lots of fans who don't usually attend must have went.”

“To get a rough idea of the fanbase just look back to when the Swans were in the old first division. Ground capacity then was around 24000, 3 full houses and an average attendance below 20000 in their first season ever in the first division. At present things are going far better than most people would have said a few years ago and it is probably fair to say that a lot of people, if asked, would say they would go to matches given the chance. The thing is, how many of those people would buy season tickets or go to all the games or nearly all those games? There is talk of increasing the capacity by up to 12000, the big teams coming to the liberty would almost certainly fill the stadium but the smaller teams wouldn't. There is certainly a case for increasing the capacity but not by 60%. Without criticising Swans fans, certainly over the last 50 yrs that I have followed the Swans, there has always been a hardcore of support no matter what league they are in and attend matches week in, week out, but there are also a lot of supporters who love it when things are going well, as in the last 5 years, but, god forbid, should things not be going so well there will be a lot of empty seats. We do not want to bite off more than we can chew, establishing ourselves in the premiership is paramount, we do not want to go into freefall down the league as happened the last time we were in the top flight.”

“hacker, there is no 90% season ticket holder policy. We have to keep 10% for walk up and a max of up to 3100 for away fans, depending on capacity and segregation. In a 32000 capacity that's still less than 90% and at the moment about 80%.
Even with 26000 available for season tickets, do we think we'd sell that many? We'd still be relying on a decent walk up crowd.
FAO phildavies, why do you do us down when things have never been better? Just an afterthought.”