Swansea Council could fail in duty as 'corporate parent' with poor schools
SWANSEA Council would be failing in its duty as a "corporate parent" if it allowed children to go to sub-standard schools, it has been warned.
The comments were made by council leader Chris Holley during a debate on a motion calling on the cabinet to keep threatened Daniel James School open.
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Comments: Chris Holley
At one stage the debate degenerated into a shouting match as the council's cabinet member for education ran out of time to answer questions, prompting one councillor to walk out branding proceedings "a constant bloody rabble".
Daniel James school in Treboeth — which suffers from poor educational standards and falling pupil numbers — is currently earmarked for closure as part of a shake-up of schools across the county.
Proposing the opposition motion was Morriston Labour councillor Mike Hedges. He said: "If there were problems at the school, why did the Local Education Authority not address them?"
"Closure should only happen if there are no other alternatives — at Daniel James there are alternatives, and it is important for the education of very many children.
"If Daniel James School closes, that means there will be no English-medium nondenominational school between Parc Gwernfadog in Morriston and Gowerton."
Responding to the motion, Mr Holley said the debate was not about schools, but about children.
He said: "Children that go to school expect a good standard of education
"Two-thirds of the children in the area who could go Daniel James choose not to — why? That is the question we forget to ask.
"If you have children you want the best for them — the council is a 'corporate parent' and we want the best for the children."
He added: "I do not want failing schools that do not allow children to have the best education and to achieve their full potential."
One of the councillors speaking in the debate was Mynyddbach ward member and Daniel James governor Ceinwen Thomas.
She said a lot of pupils did not want to go, and would not go, to neighbouring Bishop Gore School, and would end up roaming the streets instead. She called Daniel James "learning in the heart of the community".
Fellow school governor June Burtonshaw, member for Penderry, said Daniel James had only been given seven months to turn itself around after it was labelled a failing school by an Estyn inspector, and had not been given a "fair chance".
But Mynyddbach member Audrey Clement said children had been leaving Daniel James for years without the qualifications they needed for life, and that the school was "doomed".
Several members asked Mr Day questions during the debate, including Clydach councillor Roger Smith, who wanted to know whether other schools, specifically Birchgrove, would find themselves in the firing line if Daniel James school was reprieved.
Chairman of the meeting Huw Rees ruled the cabinet member would answer them all together, but Mr Day ran out of his allotted time before he could do so.
He tried to carry on talking regardless, but Labour group leader David Philips repeatedly objected, saying Mr Day should stick to his time slot.
There then followed headed discussions across the chamber on how long members had to speak, and Lib Dem councillors accused Labour of not wanting to hear the answers.
When it became clear Mr Day would not be able to answer the questions, Mr Smith walked out saying he had better things to do in his ward than to "listen to this constant bloody rabble''.







11 Comments
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by Ray Welsby, Clase Morriston
Thursday, December 23 2010, 11:28AM
“I have read all the comments, and as a former govorner of this school I informed councillor Holley this school was failing the pupils.The board of govorner's was political it was labour controlled and the govorners must take some responsibility, because I was outspoken I was removed from the board of govorners by councillors because I was high lighting the facts, that a good standard of education was not being achieved in some subjects at this school. Also councillor Day would not pay a visit to this school to see for himself.”
by Dave, Swansea
Thursday, December 23 2010, 9:51AM
“I am in agreement with Mary C to be honest, but have a few additional points.
I am a former Penlan Comprehensive Pupil, and many of the people that were in my year, and many of the ladies that were in my year in Mynyddbach (as was) were complete and utter wasters.
Many years before were wasters, and many years after were wasters.
There were a number of good teachers in Penlan, and I am sure Daniel James was the same, but the truth of the matter is there are a lot of dross in the catchement area. Slate the school, and the LEA as much as you like, but if the fuel going in the engine is bad, then the engine will run poorly.
Personally I think scattering these children through the other comprehensives is a brilliant idea, that way the few pupils with the ability to achieve may actually get the chance, instead of being dragged down by poor associates, and a poor school.”
by Mary C, Penlan
Thursday, December 23 2010, 8:06AM
“roy.adams, dunvant
I said there had been high achievers...you added the many.
The school has received adverse publicity because it has deserved it.
With reference to Cllr Thomas' statement about kids wandering the streets if made to attend Bishop Gore etc...when you live in the vicinity of this school you will know that significant numbers of its pupils have been doing that for years. Cllr Thomas has been chair of governors at the school for years.
I disgaree with you and think that children would be advantaged not disadvantaged by being disseminated to better learning environments.
Too much emphasis being put on the Bishop Gore argument. There are other options.”
by roy.adams, dunvant
Wednesday, December 22 2010, 8:13PM
“Mary --I agree with your comments, but why has the school been allowed to have so much adverse publicity?. -- As you state there have been many high achievers, also there are many more children in the area who could also achieve so much. This is your community school the unruly must not be allowed to ruin the education of others, it is down to these councillors and the education authorities to take a strong line to sort the problem out, closing the school and sending the children into over crowding receiving schools in not the way forward.”
by Mary C, Penlan
Wednesday, December 22 2010, 5:37PM
“roy.adams, dunvant
In the past there have been high achievers from Penlan and Mynyddbach. Head of Olchfa is Penlan educated.
However since amalgamation into DJ standards have plummeted.”
by roy.adams, dunvant
Wednesday, December 22 2010, 5:24PM
“What another shambles,these councillors act worse that a classroom of undiscipline children. Why did David Phillips, repeately object to the lengh of time of Mike Day's statements?. Surely it would have been in everybody's interest for Mike Day to answer the questions asked.
What I have heard and read of Daniel James School it appears, that discipline in many incidents is down to an element of "St Trinians" type of saga, and the teachers are taking a large potion of the blame. How many people have tried to teach a unruly class of children, who do not want to learn and whose main aim is to be disruptive, thus upsetting those children that want to learn.
The Headteacher can only do so much as children seem to know their rights very early in their schooling years.
The main fault must lay with the Education Authorities officals who should have sorted this problem years ago, support the Head and the Teachers who have been put in an impossible situation. Instead of all this political infighting these councillors and education officals, need to get around the table and thrash this major problem out, act like responsible adults, and earn their well paid salaries.
Closing the school and transferring the
children to other schools is certainly not the way forward, Will the receiving schools,education standards not deteriorate if their is no firm leadership from our Education Authorities. Children must be taught discipline and that there are boundaries they do not cross.
Undoubtebly like any other school Daniel James have many bright children
passed and present who have the ability to progress within our city's interests. I personally know of two children from the area. One a lad who went to Penlan and today is Professor at Swansea University, and a young lady who attended Mynyddbach who has just received her doctorate as a medical surgeon and is also a qualified G.P. This area has many children with the potential to do well in their lives just give them the chance to learn in their own environment. Do not give up on the school .Just sort the problem out”
by Realist, Swansea
Wednesday, December 22 2010, 4:12PM
“John Swansea
Never read such a load of incomprehensible tosh in my life.”
by john, Swansea
Wednesday, December 22 2010, 2:34PM
“"Two-thirds of the children in the area who could go Daniel James choose not to ¿The reason is simple it is that area! The education system has been leaving our children down for decades it possibly started with their grandparents then the parents. Boys that went to Penlan Multilateral married girls that went to Mynyddbach truth good teachers apply to teach in the better districts poor teachers get jobs in areas that have problems the out come is our children now educationally are behind children in eastern European country's like Estonia,Latvia.This is not the fault of the children it is a system that has failed! To many thickos like Holley and Hedges to guttless to sack teachers that cant teach no need to shut any schools down just raise standards and if the parents don't like it then remove them and their children from the school for the benefit of those who want to study and everyone will want to go to that school!!”
by Mary C, Penlan
Wednesday, December 22 2010, 1:47PM
“Cllr Mike Hedges said "If Daniel James School closes, that means there will be no English-medium nondenominational school between Parc Gwernfadog in Morriston and Gowerton." Have they closed Dylan Thomas school then???
Agree with Suz.
@ Kay, swansea----you say " a lot of pupils did not want to go, and would not go, to neighbouring Bishop Gore School, and would end up roaming the streets instead" I put it to you that one of the major problems with Daniel James has been that far too many of its pupils have spent far too much time wandering the streets.
Daniel James supporters keep banging on about Bishop Gore as if it was the only alternative which it is not. All pupils would not have to go there.”
by suz, Dalkeith/ Gorseinon
Wednesday, December 22 2010, 11:51AM
“I have grand children who live in the catchment area for this school, and I would be very disappointed if they ended up there. It has been rebranded and still failed to attract the majority of young people who live in its catchment area.I really loathe agreeing with Holley and co. but lets stop wasting money, close it down invest the money saved in schools that are attracting the young people and move on.”