New car park is required

“Maxmin,

Sorry if I've confused you, but Welshboy52 and Wynnehenry are one and the same. I have two email accounts and some how have managed to use two different usernames on this website. I sometimes get a bit confused as to which is which, hence the use of the two names.

Seems to me you should stand as a prospective A.M. - kick some ass in the Assembly over tourism!”

“I think our positions here are not all that far apart. I did not mean to imply that the literature should not be in Welsh but that it should be in other languages as well. The attitude of the young lady I spoke to was that it shouldn't be in any other language but Welsh .

I'm certainly not knocking the gardens, and apologise if I gave that impression. I have absolutely no interest in gardens or horticulture in any shape or form – but found the gardens to be a fascinating and interesting place and well worth a visit. I have also used the conference facilities there in several occasions and found them excellent, albeit the sineage could be improved.

No the point I was making was that the lack of success with the gardens is simply a symptom of how we in Wales fail to run our tourist industry effectively.

I agree with you that language is a part of the Welsh heritage and it should be shared with visitors – however you are not going to get the chance to do this if you use it as a barricade to prevent visitors coming here. You cannot preach to people if they are not here.

The Scots had a fantastic tourist idea many years ago with the release of the film Braveheart. They made a short five minute tourist film which was shown in every cinema that was showing the main feature. It was based on the theme of "Come to Braveheart Country". The film critic of the New York Times said in his review '... after watching the film you simply had to go and visit Scotland'.

Now the point was that the majority of Braveheart wasn't even filmed in Scotland, and historically it was a complete load of nonsense. That didn't matter the concept was 'Come for Braveheart – stay for Scotland'. In other words once they had got the tourists there, then they launched the real story and the Scottish heritage – but they made sure they got them there first!

In Wales we seem to be saying that to hell with you lot if you come here you will have to speak Welsh or English so there! And the tourists are saying to hell with you we will go to England, we will go to Scotland and you can stay in Wales on your own.

Please don't get me wrong I'm not having a go at the Welshman in the street – Welshboy replied and joined the debate, I have been campaigning for years to get the Assembly and the local Council to wake up and get with the plot. I have just received my online copy of Carmarthenshire Tourism and I think for the first time it is in Dutch, German and French. Perhaps my labours have not been in vain after all!”

“Maxmin,

Let's get one thing straight, I agree that attractions like the NBGW should have literature available in other languages - but not to the exclusion of Welsh. It would be great to see French, German, Spanish and Italian versions of their guidebook as well as English and Welsh. But as a businessman you should know that these things do not come cheaply, and with the NBGW updating its guidebook on a regular basis I would imagine that it would be a costly affair. This brings me back to my earlier argument about the lack of WAG funding compared with other botanic gardens. Don't knock the Garden until it's on a level playing field.

I do speak some French and Spanish and I have spoken to foreign tourists in their own language on a number of occasions and yes, they do appreciate it. I have learned French and Spanish because I holiday abroad quite a lot and it is appreciated when I at least attempt to use the local language. Imagine how us locals would feel if you learned some Welsh and greeted us with a "Bore da". After all, you're not on holiday here, this is your country of choice.

You admit that Wales has "more to offer in the way of natural beauty, history, heritage and just about anything else you can name". Language is a large part of that heritage, and I for one want to keep that language alive.

I agree with you that Wales does not get its fair share of tourists. Even Americans do not seem to want to come to Wales despite invading England and Scotland in large numbers. Funny that, no language barrier there! No, I think the fault lies not with the Welsh for not giving them a welcome (if you can call a lack of foreign literature in attractions not giving them a welcome), but in a lack of advertising abroad by the Welsh Tourist Board. It's theWelsh Assembly Government you should be having a go at not the ordinary Welshman in the street.

I know I've said it before, but this definitely, definitely my last posting.”

“Oh dear! So the best use of your beloved Welsh is to make offensive comments?

You say that 22% people speak Welsh and that figure is rising. Well then I expect some clever businessman has seen this growing market and acted accordingly.

No doubt when you get up in the morning the first thing you do is to read your Welsh Daily Newspaper – oh can't there isn't one.

Perhaps you can settle down and watch Welsh TV? That means S4c, the most highly subsidised TV channel in the world. Well I expect Tinopolis the Llanelli production company is hiring a lot more staff to handle this growing market – no actually they've just laid off a load.

Well perhaps you can pop along to your local library and read the latest best seller in Welsh – oh dear there isn't one, never mind how about a trip to the cinema to see the latest blockbuster in Welsh – alas no luck there either.

Strange isn't it with this massive expanding market no –one is taking advantage of it.

You talk about facts – here's one. More people speak Polish in Llanelli on a day to day basis than Welsh!

Still at least you've got something right when you write "This to me shows that you would prefer any language other than Welsh to be used at Welsh attractions."

Of course I do. I want to attract visitors from overseas to come and appreciate what we have here in Wales to offer. But they won't come if people like you pull up the drawbridge and hide behind your language.

Go to any successful tourist country and they have learned that to attract tourists you have to make them feel welcome – and that involves producing information they can read and understand

Wales is one of the most beautiful countries on earth (and I speak as someone who has visited a large percentage of them) we have more to offer in the way of natural beauty, history, heritage and just about anything else you can name – and yet the tourists who should be flocking here in their tens of thousands and spending their money here are not. Why not? Perhaps it's because we are not doing enough to make them feel welcome.

I'm quite sure that if you went abroad you would be tickled pink if you went into a cafe and the proprietor welcomed you with a 'Bore Da' why won't you concede that a Frenchman would be equally chuffed with a 'Bonjour'?”

“Maxmin

Having had time to reflect on my last posting I realize that, in my temper, I wrote certain things which I did not mean, namely the last sentences in Welsh. I apologize for this.

I am an ordinary working Welshman who joined this thread to discuss and argue over the merits of the NBGW and have somehow been dragged into discussion on the Welsh language. I am not a member of Plaid Cymru or Cymdeithas yr Iaith (the Welsh Language Society).

I still firmly believe, however, that you are anti welsh language. I refer to your posting of Sat February 4th when you imply the NBGW should not use Welsh signage in favour of foreign languages:

"What! Are you saying we have to look after visitors better than our own people?" " Yes" I replied "You are supposed to be looking after tourists not the locals".

This to me shows that you would prefer any language other than Welsh to be used at Welsh attractions.

This will definitely be my last posting whatever you reply.”

“Maxmin,

My last posting was going to be my last but I've got to answer this posting.

Welsh is my first language and I use it every day at home, socially and in work. I am proud of my language and heritage. Your quip about the Italians and Latin is total nonsense. You know as well as I do that Latin is truly a dead language and that it is not spoken in Italy. It's not even a requirement for prospective doctors any more. In Wales, according to the 2004 census, 22% speak Welsh and that figure is rising. How can you compare that to Latin? Get your facts right!

Since when does the ability to speak Welsh go against someone having a job? In fact there are more and more jobs which require Welsh.

As for me communicating to you in English, I have to don't I? You live in Wales and haven't bothered to learn any Welsh, or perhaps it's too difficult for you? That's the dumbest thing you've said so far!

You may speak French, German, Spanish, Mandarin or even Urdu, but there's one language I know you are proficient in - that's the one that comes out of your backside!

Anyway, here's something for you in Welsh. Perhaps you can find somebody to translate it for you - oh no, you can't can you - it's a "dead language"!

Twll dy din! Does dim lle i hilyddwyr fel ti yn y byd! Wyt ti'n perthyn i Adolf?”

“welshboy,

I'm sorry you are talking nonsense. That's like saying all the Italians should be ashamed because they no longer speak Latin.

Welsh is a language just like thousands of other languages that have faded and died because there is no longer a need for it. Language is to enable communication and since I am an author and lecturer as well as a tour operator I believe I am managing to communicate very well thank you.

I suggest you come down out of the clouds and actually talk to the majority of Welsh people for whom the language has absolutely no relevance at all, given the choice of having the Welsh language or a job I can assure you most of them will plump for a job.

I reiterate I have no objection to the Welsh language, my wife was brought up in a household where Welsh was the first language and yet even she admits that it is of no further use. On her travels with me around the world she has found French, Russian, Spanish and Indonesian to be far more relevant.

If you wish to speak Welsh that's fine - fill your boots - but I notice that like most fervent Welsh supporters you write in English when you wish to communicate!”

“Maxmin,

Just as I thought, you are not Welsh. How can you possibly understand what the Welsh language means to us! I know many English people who have moved to Wales and made the effort to learn Welsh. If I am wrong and you are indeed Welsh, then more shame on you!

As for complaining when foreign tourists do not come to Wales - if you look through my postings on this thread you will see that I have not once complained about the lack of foreign tourists in Wales.

I have made my point. This will be my last posting on this thread.

Ta ta, Maxmin”

“I live in Wales I do not speak Welsh because I never found a need for it. I am certainly not anti Welsh language -if anyone wants to speak Welsh that's fine by me. I do however get by in several other languages. Your statement about the people of Tenby not speaking Welsh etc is simply clutching at straws.

So what if they do not speak Welsh? They are there to welcome people from all over the world- and they are doing it far better than the rest of Wales.

If the Welsh want to raise the drawbridge of language and remain insular, that's fine - but please don't complain when tourists don't want to visit.”

“Maxmin,

The "bailout" I mentioned was on top of the £29.2 million that Kew had already had for the year. Compare that with the £550,000 the NBGW gets from the Welsh Assembly.

As for Kew never being built as a tourist attraction, I don't know of any institutions being built in 1759 as tourist attractions. I don't think tourism, as we know it, really took off until the coming of the railways in Victoria's time. Having said that, Kew has now become a tourist attraction as well as a scientific centre. May I remind you that the NBGW was not built as a tourist attraction and that it too is dedicated to research, conservation and education but it realises that tourism is an important aspect of its work.

Eden, I'm afraid, I see basically as a tourist attraction, being primarily concerned with profit making. It has seen a huge drop in visitor numbers from 1.83 million in 2002 to 1 million in 2010. Its novelty is beginning to wear off. If that rate of decline continues I think we can say goodbye to Eden by 2020!

You cite Tenby as being foreign tourist friendly. May I remind you that Tenby has never been a really Welsh speaking area. Tenby lies in an area of Pembrokeshire with between 0% and 9% of its population being Welsh speakers, with the town of Tenby probably at the lower end of that range. Given this, education in Tenby has always been unsympathetic to the Welsh language, so enabling its pupils to concentrate on two foreign languages. Yes, the Tenby hotel workers may be able to speak French or German but can they speak Welsh, after all they do live in Wales.

I don't wish to be personal, but speaking of the ability to speak Welsh and living in Wales, do I detect from your postings that you live in Wales but are not a Welsh speaker and are anti-Welsh language? If I am wrong then I apologize in advance. I also detect that you may have a vested interest being in the tourist industry yourself.

Unlike you, my interest in this thread lies not with tourism per se, but with the public's (with the aid of the press) constant knocking of the NBGW and its perceived inability to manage its finances.”