Heated debate in row on council 'extremists'
SWANSEA councillors were labelled extremists by political rivals as the row over compulsory sterilisation rumbled on.
Councillor Alan Robinson, cabinet member for community regeneration, and councillor Wendy Fitzgerald, who is the council's presiding officer, both walked out as a Labour group motion calling for an unequivocal stance on sterilisation was brought up for discussion.
Asked why she was leaving, Councillor Fitzgerald replied: "I have legal issues at this time and I don't think it would be appropriate that I am in the chamber."
Comments
Allegations had arisen last week that comments about sterilisation had been made at a council seminar — involving officers and elected members — on how to improve Swansea's under-fire children and family services.
A number of councillors who were at that meeting gave their version of what had been said.
Councillor David Phillips said: "He (councillor Robinson) stated that parents who had children in care should be prevented from having more children, saying, 'If they can't look after what they've got, we should stop them having any more'.
"He did not dispute my accusation that he was advocating forced sterilisation.
"He defended his right to hold such views, and was supported by councillor Wendy Fitzgerald, who said, 'Some places do it'."
Councillor John Miles said he was shocked "the very thought had come out of these people's minds".
He said: "The officers sat there aghast when the comments were made.
"To try to say the comments were not as recorded are completely false.
"Immediately after these comments were made, members of all parties divorced themselves from them."
Councillor Audrey Clement said "enforced sterilisation" were two words that made her sick, but she accused Councillor Phillips of swearing seven times as the alleged comments triggered angry exchanges. She added: "All Councillor Fitzgerald said was that these things happen in countries abroad."
Councillor Paxton Hood- Williams said: "I have heard administration members denying the comments were said. Unfortunately, they were said."
During Thursday night's impassioned debate, a printed email from Councillor Fitzgerald — sent to councillor Paxton Hood- Williams and another councillors following last week's seminar row — was circulated in the chamber.
Referring to the seminar, Councillor Fitzgerald said: "As a point of interest, had councillor David Phillips managed to stop bellowing for just a few seconds, I could have elaborated and advised that what is happening in some European countries is actually long- term contraception, not by using pills or anything that can be missed or avoided, but by implants and similar.
"It is not sterilisation as such, as it is easily reversible."
During Thursday night's debate, Councillor Phillips said it was "contemptuous" of Councillor Robinson and Councillor Fitzgerald to leave the chamber without explaining or justifying their positions.
He called upon council leader Chris Holley to "rid his administration of these extremists".
The heated debate invoked eugenics, the Third Reich, the Geneva and Rome conventions, Alf Garnett and George Orwell's novel about political tyranny, 1984.
Conservative group leader councillor Rene Kinzett said the alleged sterilisation comments had brought the authority into disrepute.
"They make us a laughing stock," he said.
"It's mad, it's completely insane."
Councillor Mark Child said: "If some people are not good at being parents, or have children without planning to, the answer is not biological intervention, it's social intervention."
Councillors voted to support the motion which said it's unacceptable to express the view that parents of children in care should be prevented from having any more children.
Councillor Fitzgerald told the Post yesterday that she completely refuted the claims made against her.
Referring to the seminar, she said: "I was not stating a view. I was trying to provide information."
Trust
Councillor Holley told the Post he felt opposition parties were trying to demonise members of the administration, adding the controversy had eroded what little trust that had existed between the political parties in Swansea.
He said he had "interrogated" Councillor Phillips and Councillor Fitzgerald after the alleged comments, and asked Councillor Robinson if he had made a comment supporting sterilisation.
"He said no," said councillor Holley.
He added: "If this administration was to take action, it would be taking action on hearsay."
46 Comments
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by The Wind up Merchant, Swansea
Tuesday, August 04 2009, 11:27AM
“Mumbles is not my Mumbles, Mumbles belongs to the people of Mumbles and for a temporary duration, for the Tourists that visit there!
I am a Truthteller, not a bully! As some facts have been exposed about you and your son Gary on these webpages, you cannot maintain that you are in denial forever!
It is for safety and security reasons, I have to stay, 'Ingognito'! Mainly, for my own safety and security reasons! After all, Heather, what would my neighbours think of me, if they saw your son getting out of a Zeppellin, Blunderbus in hand, pointed helmet on his head and asking for my whereabouts!?”
by Heather, Mwmbwls
Tuesday, August 04 2009, 10:32AM
“@ The Wind up Merchant, Swansea; you have nothing to say do you? Just one personal insult after another. Your comment is personal and GIGO? But then what more can we expect? You are one of those who have (tried) to racially hound/harrass us since we dared move into YOUR Mumbles (incidents that are documented with the police). Well it didn't work did it. You are a bully and this is *personal*, so if you want to bully then come out into the open and give your name (even though we have a good idea of whom you are)???”
by Nye_Zwerk, Flemland
Tuesday, August 04 2009, 9:01AM
“The new registration process with the EP will, hopefully, reduce the number of off-subject Internet Troll postings e.g. Death, of a nation.”
by The Wind up Merchant, Swansea
Monday, August 03 2009, 9:56PM
“Gary, Mwmbwls
Do I take it that your Surname isn't Lineker!?
How do we know that you are Heather's Son!? Where's the proof!? Have you two had DNA tests done!? No!? Surprise, Surprise! Do you know who your Dad is!? Bet you don't!
How do we know you haven't broken the law!? Go on, own up, you just haven't been caught yet!
I think your mum accidentally left in the letter 'r' in the word friends in the post I quoted from her earlier! Is this true, Gary!?
I note your spelling of the word 'intellegence', you were clearly educated at home by your mum! Did you mum teach you from the BNP's manual on Social Etiquette!? She did!!!
My parents were not worms, they were Lions! Perhaps the reason why you are still at home with mum, is because your own little 'worm' has forgotten how to wriggle a long time ago! Is this the reason why you spend so much time fishing off Mumbles Pier!?
Who really are Heather and Ewe, sorry you!?
I'm surprised you have still got the Swatzikas after all this time, as I thought they had been rubbed away when your mum's U-Boat sank when you were a 'young boy'!”
by Gary, Mwmbwls
Monday, August 03 2009, 9:04PM
“@The Wind up Merchant, Swansea, I am Heather's Son. You may be interested in knowing that I did not appear out of a test tube. You might find it hard how perfection can come from two human beings, but hell it has.
Yes, The Wind up Merchant, Swansea I do have many freinds and yes Heather is my mum. So I am very sorry to dissapoint.
You might also like to know I have never broken law so I have not got a criminal record. I also have manners and respect, i hope your kids do. Although I doubt that very much, seeing your lack of intellegence. Were your parents a couple of worms.
Both Heather and myself have the guts for people to know who we are, you on the other hand. Tut tut tut.
As for the Swatzikas, I've got the tatoo (hard core style). If there is anything else you would like to know regarding me or my body, please let me know.”
by The Wind up Merchant, Swansea
Monday, August 03 2009, 8:12PM
“Anon, Swansea
How can Robinson and Fitzgerald be, "... the only ones talking sense on this issue..."! They are Swansea councillors, no less, and thus liable for 'Foot-in-Mouth' comments now and again!
Robinson and Fitzgerald's comments on 'compulsory sterilisation', were shame-full! Sadly, anon, your own comments have been a bit 'Sterile' lately, so snip, snip, toodle pip!”
by The Wind up Merchant, Swansea
Monday, August 03 2009, 8:00PM
“Heather, Mwmbwls
Thanks for your comments, I am so pleased I have your 'respect'!
Moi, 'stoop low'!? I have to, my dear, to reach your standards!
Did your son appear out of a Test Tube!? Did he have Swatzikas stitched into his nappies!? If your 'son', "....has many friends, is popular and is kind - everything....", are you sure YOU are his Mother, Heather!?”
by David, Skewen
Monday, August 03 2009, 5:53PM
“Is it me or is it that every time there is controversy in and around Swansea Council Wendy Fitzgerald is never far away. She needs a kick up the backside because it seems she is either going towards trouble or coming from it!!”
by Heather, Mwmbwls
Monday, August 03 2009, 11:19AM
“@ Miranda, loughor; if you know anything about Black, African men then you will understand why they go for white women. Black women are harsh and keep a very strong hand on their men ¿ that¿s their culture, that¿s the way they are? They are strong women and sure as hell wouldn¿t put up with being trodden on by any man”
by Dai, Swansea
Monday, August 03 2009, 10:23AM
“Kris, I am sorry you have failed to grasp the core principle of my argument.
Everyone has the right of 'free speech' except those who sanction such obscene actions as those proposed by councillors Robinson and Fitzgerald.
It is as if some people have forgotten the attrocities that happened between 1939 and 1945 - well I have not and I will not remain silent whilst people like the two obnoxious councillors spout out such venom.
You give up Kris if you want to I am here fo stay.”