Debate needs both sides

“Jiffy is that all you got I thought you would have something more intelligent and constructive to say on this matter being what I have read of most of your post and arguments are eloquently put there a lot that you say that I do agree with .I'm also glad you think that my comments and opinions are inconsequential is that why you replied to my posts do you honestly think that I'm making things worse just because like you I don't back off from a fight when people insult and attack my intelligence with insults you just need to read some of the replies that I have had on here from some I have been called a welsh language Nazi and worst insults just because I had the audacity to say that I was in favour of our children learning compulsory welsh in schools in Wales?. Yes I do agree and think that hurling insults is childish. But at the end of the day when the people you have an argument with chuck insults and childish remarks your way then you find you can not have a reasonable and sensible discussion with them like grown up you end up resorting to their behaviour which I admit I shouldn't but when the red mist takes over we all say and act in a way that we shouldn't I'm not perfect again thanks for your reply jiffy.”

“Nah, you're making things worse. I don't back off from fights - I think hurling insults is childish. You create fights. Being insulting will NEVER encourage people to see your point of view. Your actions on here are so destructive you are damaging the good name of welsh speakers of all walks of life.

Now I know you will have some insulting retort - that is your modus operandi. Your opinion is inconsequential to me, so save your breath. It's your shoddy behaviour that lets the side down. I believe it is called "Flaming."”

“jiffywonders yes I agree we are certainly not on the same side .I'm a Welshman with a backbone one that fights for what he believes in when attacked and will attack back! And speak my mind on the other hand you are the lay down and die type of welsh nationalist like I said chalk and cheese! Mate chalk and cheese”

“Sorry mwc - you do yourself no favours. You are overtly aggressive. We are not on the same side. I love my language. I hate to see the goodwill we have in wales towards it spoiled by folks like you flaming online.”

“Maxmin Get out of your ignorant hate filled bath and listen. I don't hate the English? I despise all Anti Welsh protagonists whether Welsh, English or Whatever nationality who actively belittle Wales in which the worst are home grown. Oh yes! The people who truly love Wales decided our destiny sometime ago not balsa wood boyos like you.”

“maxmin

"Muckywind, Jiffy has asked me to stop teasing you and I must admit I really shouldn't but I find it so hard to resist taking some racist down several pegs! Will try harder."

You know what they say about talking to yourself.”

“Muckywind, Jiffy has asked me to stop teasing you and I must admit I really shouldn't but I find it so hard to resist taking some racist down several pegs! Will try harder.”

“I always find it a bit odd that some seem to hate the culture that is all around them. To be honest i think it's more of an English thing. English people and English speakers seem to think that have a god given right to expect others to adopt their ways and culture. You can see this in evidence with right wing parties like the BNP. It's ok for English people to live anywhere they wish in the world and make no effort to learn the local language or customs. Yet when someone mover here there are up in arms when these incomers do not integrate.

A good example of this was someone i know who moved to Spain, because London was now full of non English speaking people. When i asked him he he was learning Spanish, he just laughed and said he wasn't speaking anything other then his mother tongue, and whats more no one was going to make him.

Of course i shouldn't generalize, not everyone is the same. Many here in the UK like myself welcome all incomers and are only to happy for them to continue with their way of life or religion.”

“Jiffyswonder do me a favour mate less! of the mucky name calling its very childish on your part. I would also advise you to get the facts right and do more reading of what's been written on this subject before you make comment. About myself because at the end of the day I have the same view has you have which is pro welsh language when it comes to the subject. You may think my comments are highly offensive toward maxmin .but you should understand the context and why they were made. I find maxmin to be an idiot I dislike him and have no time for fools . You see If I called you a racist and anti-English along with a string of other insults just because your comments were pro- welsh language and culture wouldn't you just get peed-off! and fight back? if some moron called you a racist and anti-English when your wife's English your sons half English because of his mothers blood line and half the members of your family are from England it becomes a joke because at the end of the day. that's exactly what that idiot maxmin did he said I was racist towards England and the English. Which is so out of touch with reality and the facts that its pathetic and laughable he's a bit like a broken record. If he was a real man he would apologise for calling me a racist or otherwise come up with proof and .conclusive evidence: for an argument that serves to establish the fact or the truth of the racist claim so Jiffyswonder get the facts before you insult me then you will not make yourself look stupid”

“Jiffys wonders,

Many thanks for your reply, I see I didn't explain myself clearly. You say that when we go abroad we try to learn a bit of the local language and quite right too, personally the first words I always try and learn are 'Please' and 'Thank you'.

However I would suggest that in just about every place you go you will find some English being used, of varying quality I agree but then it's not their language. You can generally make yourself understood with taxi drivers and staff at your hotel. You will also find plenty of written information in English, maps, guides etc, and using these few stepping stones you can explore the local language and culture, and that's the way it should be. And I would suggest that these few instances make you feel welcome and valued.

However if you reverse the situation and imagine you are a German visiting Wales, very few people know any German, the staff at your hotel almost certainly won't. When I was researching the tourist industry about eight years ago I visited many hotels and asked if they had a bi-lingual policy for their staff. Yes I was told many of them speak Welsh and English, when I asked about other languages, such as the main European ones I was met with total bafflement.

When you go to the National Museum in Cardiff, again none of the staff speak anything but Welsh and English and all the guides and information labels are in those two languages alone. I interviewed many of the foreign visitors and asked them what if anything could be done to make their visit more enjoyable, all of them without exception said that a guide in their language would be most helpful. Exactly the same with the National Botanical garden in Carmarthen. Now if some little shack in the wilds of the Cretan mountains can have guides to the site in 34 different languages don't you think that we could be making a bit more of an effort to make our guests feel welcome?

The only place I found that did make an effort was Tenby. I found many hotel staff attending night classes in the main languages paid for by the hotel owners and there was plenty of literature available for them. Visiting the tourist information office I found the lady there had just received the stats for tourism in Wales. The place that attracted most visitors and repeat visitors - Tenby! That should tell us something.

I'm not asking for the earth just a few cost effective measures to make visitors feel that they are welcome and valued. If we do that then you will be amazed at how many want to come again. And don't forget these visitors are not just tourists, they have other jobs as well - perhaps executive officers of companies looking to start business's abroad - like Wales for example.”